Forgiveness does not mean the same as trust. You can forgive someone, but that forgiveness is more for YOU than it is them. If the person you forgive is still misbehaving, then tough love is absolutely okay. And I am sure it jives with the Gospel. I do not think that the Lord intends for us to be doormats, and he certainly doesn't want us to accept or tolerate bad behavior. He doesn't. Again, forgiveness is a totally different thing than trust or tolerance.
Nail on the head, Lara. Forgiveness is more for you than for the person who has wronged you. It's not the same as forgetting, or pretending it didn't happen.
Your enabling question is harder, because to *not* enable requires more than forgiveness on your part, it requires *you* to change your behavior. i.e. You can "forgive" your child for breaking curfew, but if there are no consequences, they will continue to abuse the priviledge. Only once you take disciplinary action will they be forced to confron their behavior.
Answering your question is, in my opinion, easy. The answer, however, is very hard and is likely the hardest thing one can do. The answer is so hard, in fact, that people have died living it.‡
What manner of men are we to be? Like Christ and how does he forgive? He forgives sins and then remembers them no more.
He said, "I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men." (emphasis mine)
What did he say to do when someone hurts us? He told us to turn the other cheek. He also told us to pray for those who despitefully use us.
We could quibble and bring up the great defenders of the faithful such as Captain Moroni, Gideon, Elijah and others who definitely did not turn the other cheek and yet were unquestionable examples of righteousness; however, I personally look to only one source for answers to such questions.
Having said that, I will freely admit that I am still far from being a good example of living like that. Thankfully, I have four marvelous children that give me plenty of opportunity to practice.
I've more than my share of life lessons on this one. Certainly more than anyone wants to read in a comment. We'll save it for some other time. Just a couple of things. I have learned there is a difference between helping and enabling. And as parents we cross the line too often. I have learned the difference between forgiveness and tolerance. I can forgive meaning I have let go, I can pray for the offender and not wish them ill harm, however, I do not need to stay in a toxic relationship. I have learned that anger and disappointment are two completely different emotions and I need to be clear with my children on which one I am feeling and that there isn't ever hate involved.
Yes, there is a time for justified anger. Remember Jesus in the temple with all of the people selling things? He was angry. I think he was showing us that it is okay to be angry at times. I also think that you can forgive someone without enabling them. EX: My s-i-l uses me. I told her I would not allow it anymore, but I absolutely forgive her for it. I will no longer allow myself to be a door mat, though. and she knows it. It's others who carry the grudge and don't tell her about it that are enabling her. Yes, I think that tough love jives with the gospel. Sometimes those we love need that to grow. That's just my take on things.
Absolutely, tough love jives with the gospel. The gospel IS tough love! Satan wanted to force us all to do what was right. But Jesus' plan called for us to be allowed to make mistakes AND THEN HAVE CONSEQUENCES FOR OUR ACTIONS. The whole point of this existance is to be allowed to learn from our mistakes. And we only learn when we are not sheltered from consequences. Parents who (albeit lovingly) try to spare their kids from the cause and effect of their actions rob them from the very reason we are here on this earth.
When the adulteress was about to be stoned, and Christ stopped those who were going to stone her, he took her aside afterward and said, "Your sins are forgiven you. GO YOUR WAY AND SIN NO MORE." In other words, yes, you are forgiven, but you cannot continue to behave this way. You have to change.
I am a huge believer in tough love and not enabling, in case you can't tell!!!
When you are older, I will tell you the story of my incredibly abusive parents and the lessons I have learned. But mostly, I could not progresse without "tough love". Ditto to the things having been said.
When you are older, I will tell you the story of my incredibly abusive parents and the lessons I have learned. But mostly, I could not progresse without "tough love". Ditto to the things having been said.
It's tough to be in this situation. Believe me... one of my daughters has put us through you know what and back. Tough love seemed to be the answer for us. The more you enable them the harder you really are making life for them in the long run. Forgiving someone doesn't mean you allow them to walk all over you. You can forgive, love and support, but not enable!! :)
18 comments:
Forgiveness does not mean the same as trust. You can forgive someone, but that forgiveness is more for YOU than it is them. If the person you forgive is still misbehaving, then tough love is absolutely okay. And I am sure it jives with the Gospel. I do not think that the Lord intends for us to be doormats, and he certainly doesn't want us to accept or tolerate bad behavior. He doesn't. Again, forgiveness is a totally different thing than trust or tolerance.
Hiiiii, just stopped by to let you know I stopped by . . . and what a great question. One I think about a lot.
My answers are YES. YES. and YES.
YYYYYEEEESSSSSS!
And thanks for always blessing me with your cook, gentle, clever wisdom. YOu da Bomb!
UBER cute blog, btw.
Nail on the head, Lara. Forgiveness is more for you than for the person who has wronged you. It's not the same as forgetting, or pretending it didn't happen.
Your enabling question is harder, because to *not* enable requires more than forgiveness on your part, it requires *you* to change your behavior. i.e. You can "forgive" your child for breaking curfew, but if there are no consequences, they will continue to abuse the priviledge. Only once you take disciplinary action will they be forced to confron their behavior.
WOW--it's like Lara took the words right out of my mouth!!
I just came back to see what others were saying, and realized I used a weird account...but it was me Lara. :)
Answering your question is, in my opinion, easy. The answer, however, is very hard and is likely the hardest thing one can do. The answer is so hard, in fact, that people have died living it.‡
What manner of men are we to be? Like Christ and how does he forgive? He forgives sins and then remembers them no more.
He said, "I, the Lord, will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required to forgive all men." (emphasis mine)
What did he say to do when someone hurts us? He told us to turn the other cheek. He also told us to pray for those who despitefully use us.
We could quibble and bring up the great defenders of the faithful such as Captain Moroni, Gideon, Elijah and others who definitely did not turn the other cheek and yet were unquestionable examples of righteousness; however, I personally look to only one source for answers to such questions.
Having said that, I will freely admit that I am still far from being a good example of living like that. Thankfully, I have four marvelous children that give me plenty of opportunity to practice.
‡Alma 24:21,22
I've more than my share of life lessons on this one. Certainly more than anyone wants to read in a comment. We'll save it for some other time. Just a couple of things.
I have learned there is a difference between helping and enabling. And as parents we cross the line too often.
I have learned the difference between forgiveness and tolerance. I can forgive meaning I have let go, I can pray for the offender and not wish them ill harm, however, I do not need to stay in a toxic relationship.
I have learned that anger and disappointment are two completely different emotions and I need to be clear with my children on which one I am feeling and that there isn't ever hate involved.
I wonder if that even answered your question???
Yes, there is a time for justified anger. Remember Jesus in the temple with all of the people selling things? He was angry. I think he was showing us that it is okay to be angry at times.
I also think that you can forgive someone without enabling them. EX: My s-i-l uses me. I told her I would not allow it anymore, but I absolutely forgive her for it. I will no longer allow myself to be a door mat, though. and she knows it. It's others who carry the grudge and don't tell her about it that are enabling her.
Yes, I think that tough love jives with the gospel. Sometimes those we love need that to grow.
That's just my take on things.
Far wiser respondents than I have already weighed in, so I'll just say DITTO, especially to Lara, who I think is plain old awesome.
Your blog is darling, same with the kids (maybe that's why the blog is so cute).
And I'm glad you came to call through Sher's blog! Sher is another person I think is beyond terrific, so any friend of hers is a friend of mine!
BTW, I see you comment on Amber's blog (of Tavis and Amber) fairly regularly. She's my little sister, so small world, eh?
I think Anger in most cases is justified. I think how you ACT on your anger is they key question.
I ditto everything Melissa said.
I can forgive - but I don't need that person in my life. Have recently ended a few toxic relationships and I am all the better for it!
Absolutely, tough love jives with the gospel. The gospel IS tough love! Satan wanted to force us all to do what was right. But Jesus' plan called for us to be allowed to make mistakes AND THEN HAVE CONSEQUENCES FOR OUR ACTIONS. The whole point of this existance is to be allowed to learn from our mistakes. And we only learn when we are not sheltered from consequences. Parents who (albeit lovingly) try to spare their kids from the cause and effect of their actions rob them from the very reason we are here on this earth.
When the adulteress was about to be stoned, and Christ stopped those who were going to stone her, he took her aside afterward and said, "Your sins are forgiven you. GO YOUR WAY AND SIN NO MORE." In other words, yes, you are forgiven, but you cannot continue to behave this way. You have to change.
I am a huge believer in tough love and not enabling, in case you can't tell!!!
:)
When you are older, I will tell you the story of my incredibly abusive parents and the lessons I have learned. But mostly, I could not progresse without "tough love".
Ditto to the things having been said.
When you are older, I will tell you the story of my incredibly abusive parents and the lessons I have learned. But mostly, I could not progresse without "tough love".
Ditto to the things having been said.
It's tough to be in this situation. Believe me... one of my daughters has put us through you know what and back. Tough love seemed to be the answer for us. The more you enable them the harder you really are making life for them in the long run. Forgiving someone doesn't mean you allow them to walk all over you. You can forgive, love and support, but not enable!! :)
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